Oh dear at least 4 months of listening to argument on the EU, every news time, multiple programmes, we could all go crazy. I am already very unimpressed with the rhetoric on both sides of the argument, why should I get excited about such selfish, small minded, wrong values; by that I mean this constant ‘ how will the UK benefit, how will I be better off, ME, ME, ME, ME, . Sorry I think we should be thinking how are others better off, how are my fellow beings in the rest of Europe benefitted, how will our negotiations help the poor, the disposed, the homeless, the refugees, the widows and the fatherless. Instead what we have, from both sides, the selfish, we are the most important beings in the world. Give me a break!
Keith Lannon
ReplyDeleteWith all that in mind Adrian, which way do you think we should vote.
Adrian Hawkes
ReplyDeleteI think we should stay in... I am not in favour of the little England mentality. I also think on a practical level we have not considered Scotland, how we benefit the rest of Europe, how badly it would affect Southern Ireland . Also all the Rhetoric about the people coming from Europe to work in the UK. its 2.4 million people. Thats a lot of people, but we do not hear about the 2.2 million British people who have gone to live and work in other EU countries. Then of course there is the cost to the UK what we pay to the E.U. we hear the figures, and I keep seeing on FB we could put that into the National Health. May be we could if we continued to earn it out of the EU but as a % of GDP the NH service is around 17% whereas the cost of us being in the EU is something like 0.5% of GDP. Sorry I think its all mad.
Angus Murray
ReplyDeleteI'm in total agreement Adrian Hawkes - the EU has many faults, but we could and should use our influence from within rather than from without. We'd be in a very bad way indeed if all the European and other foreign national engineers and clinicians were forced to depart the UK. Many British companies actively headhunt highly skilled professional engineers and scientists from overseas, simply because they aren't available in the UK!
Amanda Lannon
ReplyDeleteWhat about the disposed, homeless, widows, fatherless, motherless, pensioners, middle men/women, sick, dying of this country,Adrian? Those who have worked and paid their taxes who are not getting help? The saying, charity begins at home, is because if we don't look after ourselves, no one else is going to do it for us! It is not about "me, me me" it is about "us, us us". Saying that, it does not mean we should not help beyond home turf, but actually, if those are helped here there will be more to help elsewhere in the long term. Ignore our own domestic situation and we are of no use to anyone else. Just saying.
Adrian Hawkes
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the argument ‘charity should start at Home’ with of course is a very old chestnut, is that usually it not only starts at home it stays at Home! In other words it becomes a defence for not doing what we should do. How much charity should we spend at home, in terms of the big picture the UK recently moved from being the 6th richest country in the world, to the 5th Richest; Charity seems to be doing very well thank you. Now if you mean how that wealth is distributed then that of course is another story, because that goes back to another selfish issue, it comes back to power and selfishness. We need to pay the top director much more, do we? Have a look at how that disparate has increased in the UK. I would recommend people have a look at a book called The Spirit Level by Richard Wilkerson and Kate Picket; it’s not such an easy read but well worth the effort. Maybe I am just saying...
Amanda Lannon
ReplyDeleteWell I find that very odd indeed. If you are needing help and then receive help, back on your feet and operative again, surely only common decency decrees that you get up and go help other's! How sad that, according to your comment, that does not occur. I guess it takes those who hit rock bottom to appreciate "charity" if given.
Angus Murray
ReplyDeleteMost people I'm pretty sure will simply vote 'Brexit' according to whether or not they like or dislike David Cameron or Jeremy Corbyn, rather than whether or not we can do more good inside or outside the EU.
Ian Chisnall
ReplyDeleteWhile that is a risk, it is vital that we take the discussion away from the two monotone voices of the professional in and out brigade. I am with Adrian in terms of my voting intentions. As corrupt and damaged as the EU is, it nevertheless offers the opportunity for our nation to play a part in ensuring that the whole of the Continent offers sanctuary to those displaced by our military endeavours. Being in the EU offers many advantages to business and therefore to job creation. All those opposed to the EU that I have heard argue instead for another set of relationships which in time will form their own set of problems for people in our nation who don't like to be 'bossed around' by foreigners.
Angus Murray
ReplyDelete"another set of relationships" is quite likely to be a trade war against the UK!
Ian Chisnall
ReplyDeleteI am referring to EFTA and WTO
Julian Freeman
ReplyDeleteIn
Mark Sutton
ReplyDeleteWith you Adrian Hawkes
Adrian Hawkes
ReplyDeleteQuestion: There are 2.4 million EU people living in UK and 2.2 Million UK people living in other EU countries, what will happen to the benefits of the UK people living in other EU countries?
Peter Bayliss
ReplyDeleteAs an old friend Adrian, think you may guess that i will doubt your understanding (or mine either.....) of the EU situation. True, the final `vote` may sound very self-centered, and quiet about the so many who seem to have fallen far from the supposing `wealth` or the `blessings` of one way or the other. But the economy of following either pathway is important. Ultimately less or more ability to help those who are less able or less worth because lack of social commitment, are factors that should demand our attention to these apparently self-centered aims. If the society still is not `helping` the needy then either the `in or out` choice will fail ! That alone should make us think and become part of the solution. Wake up Adrian and put your `x`, be part of the debate.
Adrian Hawkes
ReplyDeleteHappy to be part of the debate, but would like to move that debate away from the 'self centred' approach that centers on in or out in terms of how it is good for 'me' leaving out how it benefits others in Europe and at the moment on the fringe of Europe in cold tents on the Boarders of Turkey, in Lebanon, in Jordan. Yes we need to look after the Fatherless, the widows, the aged. To miss quote.... ' This we should have done, but we need to do the other also.
Found this very good piece by Mr Billy Brag. A great argument for staying in Europe that you won't find on mainstream media outlets.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/billybraggofficial/posts/10153224566367471
Very good article, very sensible.
DeleteSamuel Thompson
ReplyDeleteI believe all organisations are Generally Antichist especially The Bigger the worse or more Religious is worse
The Roman Church being the epitome of this
Leadership should be Charismatic Genuine True Practical and Reasonable and Kind
Organisation that forces subservience is An Abomonation
You only have to read one or two scriptures to know this
Europa was the Women Zeus had relations with to produce the Minator which was encapsulated within the Labyrinth to protect men
Samuel Thompson
ReplyDeleteI believe in the Anointing in my opinion Europe typifies as did USSR the opposite of this and has a weakness to be taken captive by the wrong sort of Charisma as has the Roman Church
E.U. I am still not hearing anything positive from either Camps, in or out on how we can help other Europeans, all I hear is how it will be better for UK, I am sorry that is just a wrong perspective. Why should be "it's better for us" shouldn't we be thinking, saying, and asking what is better for others what a terrible selfish introverted promotion from both sides.
ReplyDelete